Comments on: Vernacular Web 2 http://nastynets.com/?p=817 internet surfing club Mon, 30 Jan 2012 07:34:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Jon Williams http://nastynets.com/?p=817&cpage=1#comment-5722 Jon Williams Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:38:23 +0000 http://nastynets.com/?p=817#comment-5722 I think a big part of "web design" is to stop worrying and love your browser quirks. I think a big part of “web design” is to stop worrying and love your browser quirks.

]]> By: tom moody http://nastynets.com/?p=817&cpage=1#comment-5711 tom moody Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:26:34 +0000 http://nastynets.com/?p=817#comment-5711 The article Britta links to goes into painful detail about class (we're not supposed to talk about it in America either because we're an egalitarian democracy). Here's the "nut graf" for me--that class is based on three types of "capital": <blockquote>Again according to Wikipedia, in Pierre Bourdieu’s The Forms of Capital, three types of “capital” are identified: Economic capital: command over economic resources (cash, assets). Social capital: resources based on group membership, relationships, networks of influence and support. Bourdieu defines social capital as “the aggregate of the actual or potential resources which are linked to possession of a durable network of more or less institutionalized relationships of mutual acquaintance and recognition.” Cultural capital: forms of knowledge; skill; education; any advantages a person has which give them a higher status in society, including high expectations. Parents provide children with cultural capital, the attitudes and knowledge that makes the educational system a comfortable familiar place in which they can succeed easily. </blockquote>So it's more than just rich or poor but you can go crazy evaluating all these relationships. The article Britta links to goes into painful detail about class (we’re not supposed to talk about it in America either because we’re an egalitarian democracy). Here’s the “nut graf” for me–that class is based on three types of “capital”:

Again according to Wikipedia, in Pierre Bourdieu’s The Forms of Capital, three types of “capital” are identified:

Economic capital: command over economic resources (cash, assets).
Social capital: resources based on group membership, relationships, networks of influence and support. Bourdieu defines social capital as “the aggregate of the actual or potential resources which are linked to possession of a durable network of more or less institutionalized relationships of mutual acquaintance and recognition.”
Cultural capital: forms of knowledge; skill; education; any advantages a person has which give them a higher status in society, including high expectations. Parents provide children with cultural capital, the attitudes and knowledge that makes the educational system a comfortable familiar place in which they can succeed easily.

So it’s more than just rich or poor but you can go crazy evaluating all these relationships.

]]> By: olia http://nastynets.com/?p=817&cpage=1#comment-5710 olia Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:02:06 +0000 http://nastynets.com/?p=817#comment-5710 they will not if design education continues to be graphic design, and web design is seen as a little sister of it. tom and jon, thanx a lot for your comments. i was offline. I'd like to add some of your comments as footnotes to V2. and i'll read the text sugested by britta. about "class". do i understand you guys right. when u say "class" u mean rich and poor or there is more? For me, who grew with works of Marks and Lenin this word is not that easy to use :)) they will not if design education continues to be graphic design, and web design is seen as a little sister of it.

tom and jon, thanx a lot for your comments. i was offline.
I’d like to add some of your comments as footnotes to V2.
and i’ll read the text sugested by britta.

about “class”. do i understand you guys right. when u say “class” u mean rich and poor or there is more? For me, who grew with works of Marks and Lenin this word is not that easy to use :))

]]> By: tom moody http://nastynets.com/?p=817&cpage=1#comment-5709 tom moody Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:37:22 +0000 http://nastynets.com/?p=817#comment-5709 Man, I hear ya. But they will never give up habits of the printed page and its lovely uniformity. Man, I hear ya. But they will never give up habits of the printed page and its lovely uniformity.

]]> By: Jon Williams http://nastynets.com/?p=817&cpage=1#comment-5708 Jon Williams Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:43:28 +0000 http://nastynets.com/?p=817#comment-5708 Eh, I just hate graphic designers and their FIXED PIXEL WIDTH BASED LAYOUTS. Give up!! Eh, I just hate graphic designers and their FIXED PIXEL WIDTH BASED LAYOUTS. Give up!!

]]> By: tom moody http://nastynets.com/?p=817&cpage=1#comment-5706 tom moody Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:53:05 +0000 http://nastynets.com/?p=817#comment-5706 Well, it's web design in that you go from the main MOMA page to this one and suddenly you're in this simulated Paper Rad environment of color! and funky out-of-perspective boxes! and then you click through to the del.icio.us page to see what the kids are really down with. And then you use your back button to get back. Well, it’s web design in that you go from the main MOMA page to this one and suddenly you’re in this simulated Paper Rad environment of color! and funky out-of-perspective boxes! and then you click through to the del.icio.us page to see what the kids are really down with. And then you use your back button to get back.

]]> By: Jon Williams http://nastynets.com/?p=817&cpage=1#comment-5705 Jon Williams Mon, 13 Aug 2007 06:13:17 +0000 http://nastynets.com/?p=817#comment-5705 That MoMA shit isn't web design; its graphic design. That MoMA shit isn’t web design; its graphic design.

]]> By: tom moody http://nastynets.com/?p=817&cpage=1#comment-5698 tom moody Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:12:38 +0000 http://nastynets.com/?p=817#comment-5698 Correction to my own sentence above: "The article you linked to doesn’t get into 'dirt style' but I’d say that’s an example of a Category X (artist, boho) appropriation of low class design as a way of twitting the values of high class design." Some related graphics are <a href="http://www.tommoody.us/archives/2007/08/12/web-art-20/" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Correction to my own sentence above: “The article you linked to doesn’t get into ‘dirt style’ but I’d say that’s an example of a Category X (artist, boho) appropriation of low class design as a way of twitting the values of high class design.”

Some related graphics are here.

]]> By: tom moody http://nastynets.com/?p=817&cpage=1#comment-5697 tom moody Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:23:07 +0000 http://nastynets.com/?p=817#comment-5697 And veering slightly off topic--what about MOMA's page design for its show <a href="http://moma.org/exhibitions/2007/automatic_update/index.html" rel="nofollow">Automatic Update</a>? I'm guessing that's a professional designer imitating dirt style or Paper Rad's "faxel" style. The museum probably couldn't have asked the artists to design the page because it would violate about 10 museum policies and about 10 more union rules. But then, it was supposed to be a show about Web 2.0 or post-dot com art and the museum isn't allowed to show Internet art in the galleries because the Net itself is taboo. (People might surf porn.) And veering slightly off topic–what about MOMA’s page design for its show Automatic Update? I’m guessing that’s a professional designer imitating dirt style or Paper Rad’s “faxel” style. The museum probably couldn’t have asked the artists to design the page because it would violate about 10 museum policies and about 10 more union rules. But then, it was supposed to be a show about Web 2.0 or post-dot com art and the museum isn’t allowed to show Internet art in the galleries because the Net itself is taboo. (People might surf porn.)

]]> By: tom moody http://nastynets.com/?p=817&cpage=1#comment-5696 tom moody Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:11:36 +0000 http://nastynets.com/?p=817#comment-5696 Thanks, britta, for the link to that discussion. The NY Times vs the NY Post is a good example of class warfare playing out in design terms. It doesn't get into "dirt style" but I'd say that's its an example of a Category X (artist, boho) appropriation of low class design as a way of twitting the values of high class design. What happens when "dirt style" is written about in Wired and becomes a design flavor of the "classy" shops is another problem. Thanks, britta, for the link to that discussion. The NY Times vs the NY Post is a good example of class warfare playing out in design terms. It doesn’t get into “dirt style” but I’d say that’s its an example of a Category X (artist, boho) appropriation of low class design as a way of twitting the values of high class design. What happens when “dirt style” is written about in Wired and becomes a design flavor of the “classy” shops is another problem.

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