The Rhizome Digest merged into the Rhizome News in November 2008. These pages serve as an archive for 6-years worth of discussions and happenings from when the Digest was simply a plain-text, weekly email.
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Subject: RHIZOME DIGEST: 5.28.04 From: digest@rhizome.org (RHIZOME) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:01:15 -0700 Reply-to: digest@rhizome.org Sender: owner-digest@rhizome.org RHIZOME DIGEST: May 28, 2004 Content: +announcement+ 1. Dana: Convergence: The Collision Of Physical & Virtual Space In Digital Art 2. Rachel Greene: Fwd: FBI Abducts Artist, Seizes Art - Help Urgently Needed 3. Kevin McGarry: Fw: -empyre- in June: 2004 Australian Culture Now +opportunity+ 4. Chris Starkey: 2004 Interactive Media Forum: Creative Space|Digital Space 5. erika fraenkel: Fraenkelstein Art Projects â Second art salon Laisle.com 6. Rachel Greene: Fwd: MUTEK Artists To Join ISEA2004 +interview+ 7. Jemima Rellie: Tate in Space [with Susan Collins - part 2] +thread+ 8. Patrick Simons (patricksimons AT gloriousninth.com), Michael Szpakowski (szpako AT yahoo.com), atomic elroy (atomic AT pcisys.net), Kate Southworth (katesouthworth AT gloriousninth.com), Rob Myers (robmyers AT mac.com), Christina McPhee (christina112 AT earthlink.net):new work: gloriousninth flaming 9. ryan griffis (grifray AT yahoo.com), t.whid (twhid AT twhid.com), [ l o u s u S i ] (loususi AT bijaxous.com), Ann Tomoko Yamamoto (yamamoto_ann AT yahoo.co.jp), Rachel Greene (rachel AT rhizome.org): rhizome needs to drop its membership fee and free its content [cont.] + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 1. Date: 5.23.04 From: Dana (dkarwas AT studioimc.com) Subject: CONVERGENCE: THE COLLISION OF PHYSICAL & VIRTUAL SPACE IN DIGITAL ART Chelsea Art Museum is pleased to announce the opening of CONVERGENCE: THE COLLISION OF PHYSICAL & VIRTUAL SPACE IN DIGITAL ART AN EXHIBITION CURATED BY JAMES TUNICK, STUDIO IMC PRESENTING ARTISTS FROM STUDIO IMC, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY'S INTERACTIVE TELECOMMUNICATIONS PROGRAM (ITP), AND YALE UNIVERSITY JUNE 3 - JUNE 19, 2004 IN THE PROJECT ROOM at CHELSEA ART MUSEUM EXHIBITION INCLUDES TWO EVENTS: THURSDAY, JUNE 3, 6:00 - 9:00 PM- OPENING PUBLIC RECEPTION, FEATURING ELECTRONIC MUSIC PERFORMANCES & REFRESHMENTS. SATURDAY, JUNE 5, 1-2PM "INTRODUCTIONS" WORKSHOP PRESENTING EXHIBITING ARTISTS FROM STUDIO IMC, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY'S ITP, AND YALE UNIVERSITY WHO WILL DISCUSS THEIR WORK AND MEET MUSEUM VISITORS. "This group of artists uses the power of media and computing technology to enhance the human need for communication and expression." -Red Burns, Chair of the Interactive Telecommunications Program (ITP) in the Tisch School of the Arts at New York University. New York, NY - Convergence: The Collision of Physical and Virtual Space in Digital Art, is a pioneering collaborative exhibition of cutting-edge artists curated by Studio IMC, a new media design and artist management studio. The show opens Thursday, June 3 with a reception from 6-9pm and runs through June 19. Museum visitors can "meet the artists" in an informal discussion of their work on Saturday, June 5, 1-2pm. Convergence is an exhibition where new media art and communications technology challenge traditional concepts of portraiture, art, and gallery space. Convergence tells of a new role for technology in contemporary art, one where the boundaries are blurred between old and new media and between digital and physical realms. In the traditional museum and gallery setting the visitor is an observer who is physically separated from the artworks. Convergence invites Museum visitors to touch and manipulate the works which brings them to life. In this way, the artworks foretell a future in which more democratic and powerful modes of communication will allow a greater multiplicity of people to express themselves and share ideas freely. The exhibition features the innovations of nine visionary artists, designers, engineers, programmers, and musicians from the U.S. and Europe, reflecting a rich diversity of cultural perspectives, and representing a new breed of international artist who is skilled in wide variety of disciplines. Many of these artists are also teachers and researchers at NYU Tisch Interactive Telecommunications Program (ITP), Yale University, and Eyebeam. Among those exhibiting are Jean-Marc Gauthier, a professor in the NYU ITP, and Daniel Shiffman artist, mathematician, programmer, and ITP researcher. Mr. Shiffman will be showing his well-known interactive work, Swarm, recently featured in the New York Times. Other new media designers include Liubo Borisov, James Clar, Konrad Kaczmarek, Dana Karwas, Miro Kirov, James Tunick, and Gabriel Winer. Convergence is being produced in conjunction with the current exhibition at the Chelsea Art Museum, Surface Tension, curated by Manon Slome, which addresses the influence of technology on contemporary painting. Slome, Chief Curator of the museum, states that "the power of much of contemporary painting is that it has absorbed the technological into its vocabulary and extended the range of painting, creating a transparent space where images accumulate, distort, overlap and intersect." As an extension, the works in Convergence further reflect the symbiosis between traditional artistic mediums and the emerging vocabulary of new media art. The exhibition is part of the Project Room program series and "Introductions" workshops in the arts and technology produced by Nina Colosi with Electronic Music Foundation. These programs are made possible by a grant from the Roland Corporation and public funds from the New York State Council on the Arts. WHERE: Chelsea Art Museum is at 556 West 22nd Street, at the corner of 11th Avenue. Take the E or 1,9 or 6 to 23rd Street. Cross town bus to 11th Ave. Walk south one block. Chelsea Art Museum is open Tues.-Sat., Noon - 6 PM. Thurs until 8pm TICKETS: Museum admission: $5 for adults/ $2 students and seniors; Thursdays, 6-8pm FREE. Reception Thursday June 3, 6-9pm FREE. "Introductions: Workshops in arts and Technology", Saturday, June 3, FREE with museum admission. CONTACT: For information on Chelsea Art Museum: www.chelseaartmuseum.org. 212-255-0719 For further information or to arrange a private press tour please contact James Tunick at JTunick AT StudioIMC.com or 203-645-0695 www.Studio IMC.com Artworks: Infinite City: 2004, James Tunick, Jean-Marc Gauthier, and Miro Kirov. Infinite City is an immersive audio visual environment where audience members establish control of their surroundings through ultrasonic sensors, live video feeds, and lasers,making the immersive environment a malleable, dynamic space that can be altered in real-time. The futuristic environment is influenced by the pop-cultural iconography of the gesture interface imagined in the Stephen Spielberg film, Minority Report, engaging the audience with all-surrounding hyper-realistic 3D graphics and spatialized multi-channel sound which they can control by simply waving their hands in the air. Intelligent Sensor Nets interface as the bridge between the physical and digital worlds, allowing audience members to control the artworks and gallery space with their bodies. See-Through Wall: 2004, Gabe Winer and Dana Karwas, See-Through Wall is an interactive video art work that redefines of space by blending the real architecture of the gallery space with virtual architecture, giving viewers "x-ray" vision to see through the walls of the gallery and out into a virtual urban landscape. 3D Cube: 2003, James Clar The 3D Display Cube is a low resolution three-dimensional television. Just as users can address pixels on a monitor screen to create images, they can also address any pixel within the display region of the 3D Cube to create spatial imagery.Unique in its design, the current embodiment of the Cube was hand made and consists of a free-standing array of 1000 LEDs in a cube display with a lower base that houses the microcontroller. Swarm: 2003, Daniel Shiffman Swarm is an interactive video installation that implements the pattern of flocking birds (using Craig Reynold's "Boids" model) as a constantly moving brush stroke. Taking inspiration from Jackson Pollack's "drip and splash" technique of pouring a continuous stream of paint onto a canvas, Swarm smears colors captured from live video input, producing an organic painterly effect in real-time. Multi-Channel Sound Installation: 2004, Konrad Kaczmarek This sound installation subtly transforms fragments of the participant's conversations and mixes them in real time into a pre-composed ambient backdrop. The participants' voices are captured as they approach and interact with each other in the space defined by the eight surrounding speakers. These recordings are then spliced, transformed in various ways, and then diffused throughout the space to create a coherent counterpoint to the existing texture. The piece plays on the concept of sonic intimacy and space by reversing the roles of commonly intimate or location-specific sounds and sounds that are often more distant or ambiophonic. Studio IMC Founded in 2000 by its current President, James A. Tunick, Studio IMC is a new media design studio and artist management agency that specializes in the development of interactive visual displays for the arts, entertainment, education, fashion, and retail. Tunick and other Studio IMC executives and designers have worked on projects with Vogue Magazine, The Museum of Modern Art PS1, MTV, Playboy, Hennessy, Diesel, Guess, Prada, Armani Exchange, French Connection UK, Banana Republic, Kenneth Cole, Bebe, and other institutions, companies, and individuals. Visit StudioIMC.com for more information about the Chelsea Art Museum show and about the design studio. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 2. Date: 5.26.04 From: Rachel Greene (rachel AT rhizome.org) Subject: Fwd: FBI ABDUCTS ARTIST, SEIZES ART - HELP URGENTLY NEEDED Begin forwarded message: From: CAE Legal Defense Fund <CAEdefense AT rtmark.com> Date: May 26, 2004 3:58:47 AM EDT To: "rachel-rhizome.org" <rachel AT rhizome.org> Subject: FBI ADBDUCTS ARTIST, SEIZES ART - HELP URGENTLY NEEDED May 25, 2004 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE FBI ABDUCTS ARTIST, SEIZES ART Feds Unable to Distinguish Art from Bioterrorism Grieving Artist Denied Access to Deceased Wife's Body DEFENSE FUND ESTABLISHED - HELP URGENTLY NEEDED Steve Kurtz was already suffering from one tragedy when he called 911 early in the morning to tell them his wife had suffered a cardiac arrest and died in her sleep. The police arrived and, cranked up on the rhetoric of the "War on Terror," decided Kurtz's art supplies were actually bioterrorism weapons. Thus began an Orwellian stream of events in which FBI agents abducted Kurtz without charges, sealed off his entire block, and confiscated his computers, manuscripts, art supplies... and even his wife's body. Like the case of Brandon Mayfield, the Muslim lawyer from Portland imprisoned for two weeks on the flimsiest of false evidence, Kurtz's case amply demonstrates the dangers posed by the USA PATRIOT Act coupled with government-nurtured terrorism hysteria. Kurtz's case is ongoing, and, on top of everything else, Kurtz is facing a mountain of legal fees. Donations to his legal defense can be made at http://www.rtmark.com/CAEdefense/ FEAR RUN AMOK Steve Kurtz is Associate Professor in the Department of Art at the State University of New York's University at Buffalo, and a member of the internationally-acclaimed Critical Art Ensemble. Kurtz's wife, Hope Kurtz, died in her sleep of cardiac arrest in the early morning hours of May 11. Police arrived, became suspicious of Kurtz's art supplies and called the FBI. Within hours, FBI agents had "detained" Kurtz as a suspected bioterrorist and cordoned off the entire block around his house. (Kurtz walked away the next day on the advice of a lawyer, his "detention" having proved to be illegal.) Over the next few days, dozens of agents in hazmat suits, from a number of law enforcement agencies, sifted through Kurtz's work, analyzing it on-site and impounding computers, manuscripts, books, equipment, and even his wife's body for further analysis. Meanwhile, the Buffalo Health Department condemned his house as a health risk. Kurtz, a member of the Critical Art Ensemble, makes art which addresses the politics of biotechnology. "Free Range Grains," CAE's latest project, included a mobile DNA extraction laboratory for testing food products for possible transgenic contamination. It was this equipment which triggered the Kafkaesque chain of events. FBI field and laboratory tests have shown that Kurtz's equipment was not used for any illegal purpose. In fact, it is not even _possible_ to use this equipment for the production or weaponization of dangerous germs. Furthermore, any person in the US may legally obtain and possess such equipment. "Today, there is no legal way to stop huge corporations from putting genetically altered material in our food," said Defense Fund spokeswoman Carla Mendes. "Yet owning the equipment required to test for the presence of 'Frankenfood' will get you accused of 'terrorism.' You can be illegally detained by shadowy government agents, lose access to your home, work, and belongings, and find that your recently deceased spouse's body has been taken away for 'analysis.'" Though Kurtz has finally been able to return to his home and recover his wife's body, the FBI has still not returned any of his equipment, computers or manuscripts, nor given any indication of when they will. The case remains open. HELP URGENTLY NEEDED A small fortune has already been spent on lawyers for Kurtz and other Critical Art Ensemble members. A defense fund has been established at http://www.rtmark.com/CAEdefense/ to help defray the legal costs which will continue to mount so long as the investigation continues. Donations go directly to the legal defense of Kurtz and other Critical Art Ensemble members. Should the funds raised exceed the cost of the legal defense, any remaining money will be used to help other artists in need. To make a donation, please visit http://www.rtmark.com/CAEdefense/ For more information on the Critical Art Ensemble, please visit http://www.critical-art.net/ Articles about the case: http://www.rtmark.com/CAEdefense/news-WKBW-2.html http://www.rtmark.com/CAEdefense/news-WKBW.html On advice of counsel, Steve Kurtz is unable to answer questions regarding his case. Please direct questions or comments to Carla Mendes <CAEdefense AT rtmark.com>. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Rhizome is now offering organizational subscriptions, memberships purchased at the institutional level. These subscriptions allow participants of an institution to access Rhizome's services without having to purchase individual memberships. (Rhizome is also offering subsidized memberships to qualifying institutions in poor or excluded communities.) Please visit http://rhizome.org/info/org.php for more information or contact Rachel Greene at Rachel AT Rhizome.org. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 3. Date: 5.26.04 From: Kevin McGarry (kevin AT rhizome.org) Subject: FW: -empyre- in June: 2004 Australian Culture Now ------ Forwarded Message From: "Melinda Rackham" <melindar AT acmi.net.au> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:35:52 +1000 To: <kevin AT rhizome.org> Subject: -empyre- in June: 2004 Australian Culture Now 2004 - Australian Culture Now issues in contemporary practice -empyre- [http://www.subtle.net/empyre] often collaborates with institutions and festivals to produce dynamic online forums for physically located events Throughout the month of June, to coincide with the opening of the 2004 exhibition at the Australian Center for the Moving Image and the National Gallery of Victoria, we invite you to join online discussions with 25 invited guests - artists, collectives, curators, theorists, and information professionals. Over four distinctly themed weeks dialogue will focus on the form, content and context of the diverse artforms which we are producing today, inclusive of networked art, painting, performance, television and print media, data capture, software art, tactical media, game modification, net.radio, machinima, mobile GPRS work, and video. June 3 - 9 "click for activism" Tactical media and political art engages with issues of social change, as artists as activists utilise their online, gallery, print and performance and video practices to highlight current issues. Facilitated by curator Melinda Rackham, with artists Scott Redford and Sue Dodd, producer Sam de Silva, and artist teams Escape from Woomera, and boat-people.org. June 10 -16 "in situ" As place dissolves in an increasingly connected world what becomes of situated practice? Artists and curators from multiple disciplines on and offline discuss site aesthetics the transportability and specificities of installation. Facilitated by curator Alexie Glass, with artists Nat and Ali, Adam Nash, Chris Caines, Zina Kaye and qnoors. June 17 - 23 "game to game" How do multi-user games, game mods and machinima fit into a gallery context? Join this discussion of the art and theory of games and game technologies. Facilitated by curator Helen Stuckey, with artists Anita Johnson, Escape from Woomera, Troy Innocent, Rebecca Cannon, and theorist Dr Melanie Swalwell. June 24 - 30 "media, mutation, migration and decay" Should we preserve paintings, performance work, screen media and online work, or let them fade away? Questions of stability, ephemerality, and archiving are addressed by those working in the field. Facilitated by curator Clare Stewart, with artists Damien Frost, Tom Nicholson and David Wadelton, software artist Tim Plaisted and information professionals Margaret Phillips and Paul Koerbin from the PANDORA archive. To read or join in the discussion, go to -empyre- at http://www.subtle.net/empyre ____________________________________ http://www.acmi.net.au/2004 2004 http://www.ngv.vic.gov.au National Gallery of Victoria http://www.acmi.net.au Australian Centre for the Moving Image http://www.spinach7.com Sam de Silva http://www.escapefromwommera.org Escape from Woomera http://www.boat-people.org boat-people.org http://yamanakanash.net Adam Nash http://www.madeupstuff.com Chris Caines http://thelineahead.net Zina Kaye http://fluidtransmissions.va.com.au qnoors http://www.acmi.net.au/lifeSigns Troy Innocent http://www.objectnotfound.net Damien Frost http://pandora.nla.gov.au PANDORA http://www.boxc.net/ Tim Plaisted http://www.sikofshadows.com Anita Johnson http://www.selectparks.net Rebecca Cannon + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + SPECIAL FOR MAY 15 - JUNE 15: All those who sign on to Copper or higher hosting plans during these dates will receive three months of full service for only $1.00! That's (Copper) starting you out with 400MB disk storage space, 2GB of data transfer, 5 POP accounts, and 5 email forwarding accounts. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 4. Date: 5.24.04 From: Chris Starkey (starkecr AT muohio.edu) Subject: 2004 Interactive Media Forum: Creative Space| Digital Space a conference, a concert & contemporary art 2004 Interactive Media Forum: Creative Space|Digital Space October 11-12, Miami University, Oxford, Ohio and an evening with Laurie Anderson October 11, Hall Auditorium, Oxford, Ohio Our fifth annual conference focuses on the intersection of digital technology and the artsâ??an exploration of cutting edge, digital media technology in creative spaces. How and why is interactive technology being applied in artistic endeavors? How are digital technologies changing the arts experience and creative culture? Our featured presenters will explore and exhibit all aspects of the digital arts, including visual, aural, tactile, and multimedia presentations. The conference includes a concert by multimedia performance artist Laurie Anderson. For more information and to register: http://student.sba.muohio.edu/ims/conference/index.html + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 5. Date: 5/24/04 From: erika fraenkel (eddiefraenkel AT yahoo.com.br) Subject: Fraenkelstein Art Projects â Second art salon Laisle.com Fraenkelstein Art Projects' Second art salon Laisle.com. Organized and curated by Erika Fraenkel and Carlo Sansolo. This art salon is dedicated to a few themes and some specific forms. The themes are: A- Hibrid forms B- Strange utopies. C- unrealizable and unlikely projects. D- Propositions. We accept works as text, image, diagrams, instalations, audio and video. The exhibitions will happen from the 31st of October of 2004. We have some places which are interested in exhibiting the projects, but we hope that more collaborators will turn up and these collaborations will be in various points of the planet. These short exhibitions could happen in cultural centers, galleries, museums, clubs, garages, bakeries, playgrounds, flats, studios and others, places run by people who want to take part in the project. To any specific theme we intend to prepare a web site, our intention is to have a cluster of web sites, these web sites will be interconnected to host the artistic propositions that people may send us. We are not only looking for artisitic projects, but also places and artists who wish to exhibit artistic projects that they might feel as relevant and interesting. The salon do not have a definitive deadline, but we would appreciate that the projects being sent as briefly as possible. We also do not have idea as how the salon will develop or end as it has an open format, thus we have a clue as how it starts but nor really how it will end. More info at: http://www.laisle.com/eventsenglfraenkelstein.html To participate, email: csansolo AT hotmail.com , eddiefraenkel AT yahoo.com.br e gritoemoff AT yahoo.com.br + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 6. Date: 5.27.04 From: Rachel Greene (rachel AT rhizome.org) Subject: Fwd: MUTEK ARTISTS TO JOIN ISEA2004 Begin forwarded message: From: mika.minetti AT lume.fi Date: May 27, 2004 9:02:26 AM EDT To: rachel AT rhizome.org Subject: MUTEK ARTISTS TO JOIN ISEA2004 ISEA2004, August 14th-22nd http://www.isea2004.net MUTEK JOINS ISEA2004 THIS AUGUST The biggest ever new media culture event ISEA2004 will bring a team of MUTEK (Canada) artists to Helsinki, Tallinn and aboard the amazing cruiser ferry connecting these two harbour cities this August. MUTEK (http://www.mutek.ca) celebrates its fifth edition in the beginning of June; the Montreal-based organisation and festival dedicated to digital culture and audio/visual creation was launched in 2000 as a yearly festival. The MUTEK/ISEA2004 collaboration begins at the Koneisto festival for electronic music and arts (http://www.koneisto.com), also organised for the fifth time in Helsinki, Finland. On August 14th, live performances by MUTEK artists Crackhaus and Akufen will definitely crack the house! The collaboration continues during the ISEA2004 cruise (August 15th-17th) from Helsinki to Stockholm, and on to Tallinn. On the Silja Opera ferry AKUFEN, DEADBEAT, DR P(R)AXIL, DJ NEUROM and DJ MUTEK take over the club venues for astonishing gigs. For instance Akufen, found worldwide on DJ top ten charts with releases by TRAPEZ, BACKGROUND, TRAUM and FORCE INC. etc., has been described as the missing link between reinventions of new techno and house. On the ferry, Akufen will play 'Music for Pregnancy'- a work inspired by several of his female friends becoming pregnant roughly the same time! Selections of this music were played some time ago at Tate Modern, London. On August 17th the ISEA2004 cruise participants arrive in Tallinn, where MUTEK presents Skoltz_Kolgen duo with their highly successful audiovisual Flüux :/Terminal performance (http://www.skoltzkolgen.com). ISEA2004 continues in Helsinki from August 19th to 22nd with exhibitions, major conferences, live performances and concerts. For more information, contact Mika Minetti, mika AT isea2004.net, tel. +358 40 719 2280. For tickets and pricing information go to http://www.isea2004.net/tickets + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 7. Date: 5.28.04 From: Jemima Rellie Subject: Tate in Space [note: this is part two of a two part interview - part one was published in last week's digest] Tate in Space © Susan Collins 2002 JR How many people were on that list at the end? Well roughly? SC The list is still growing. I¹ve added two more people this morning ?there are well over a hundred?I haven¹t checked the numbers for ages. They are from all over the world from Venezuela to Cuba to Russia.. JR And constitute an extraordinary cross-section of people and interests from scientists, space scientists, to academics to artists and architects SC The full range. JR Did they share a common language? I¹m very interested in what happens when you bring that kind of group of people into a list. Did it work the way you anticipated it would? SC I think some people were part of the list because they were very excited about the fiction and the satirical nature of the work, whereas others were seriously advocating Space Art as the new frontier, and then there was quite a serious element which was that space so far has been explored by governments and it¹s so far been quite militaristic in it¹s uses - like Star Wars etc - and that there was a serious imperative for culture to be in there and colonise that space as well. So you know, it was really quite serious and what I did for the discussion list was that I had a list of questions that I thought was quite useful to put out as a series of provocative statements that were to do with the nature of cultural ambition and to question it. Like whether it could be seen as Space Art or space pollution? I think there are probably many camps, you know some people are very excited about putting this kind of stuff out there and other people who question whether we should be messing up beyond our own planet. JR And do you think this could be used as a metaphor for Tate as an organisation as well? In terms of whether we should acknowledge and check our cultural, colonial ambitions? SC No, but I think it¹s interesting in terms of audience. Everybody seemed to assume that we were really talking to ourselves - that we were talking back to earth. And without sounding too hippy trippy, how can we assume that? I mean that¹s quite an arrogant assumption. It immediately begged the question: what happens to a piece of work when it¹s put out there? Why would you be looking inwards to a gallery when you can be looking outwards to the stars. Perhaps the whole idea of what cultural intervention might be would be questioned by that. What was interesting is that one of the sets of architects - involved in writing an article recently - sent me some of their text. In it they asked would the need for art be negated by the views out of the window? I emailed them to say well actually I have a problem with that sentence because you are assuming that the need for art is decorative, or purely to do with visual rather than to do with a fundamental human imperative to create, so I think that depends very much on what one considers the role of art to be, and if the role of art is to mirror or question one¹s context and ones environment or? JR But you¹re right, and the three architectural approaches do suggest that the architects involved have very different visions for what exactly it would mean and the role the gallery would play and the experience the audience would have in a Tate in Space. SC Well, I was very clear that in creating Tate in Space it was really only going to work as another Tate. I was actually following the idea of what happened before Tate Modern was built, so the whole construct was around the development programme for the new Tate - Tate in Space JR With pre-opening programmes to build up consensus and enthusiasm? SC Absolutely, and you also invite proposals from architects to get a sense of what the space would or could be like. The website needed to make sense in terms of its architecture and with a very modest budget -- what could I ask for? What is fair given that it was highly unlikely that a genuine commission would come out of it, (which is usually why architects pitch their work for no or low fees). So I kept it very simple and asked them for a visualisation and a very basic concept? I asked them all to produce a model, that could be downloaded as a PDF file that people could then make at home. I really like the idea of using Tate in Space as an opportunity to actually distribute these architectural models that could be made at home so that people could have their own little Tate in Space model. Sort of putting something back out into the real world? JR Again a kind of blur between the fiction and the real...very interesting? SC Something tangible, something intangible? JR Yes. SC Initially I invited three architects [ETALAB, Softroom and Sarah Wigglesworth Architects] for the launch of the website and then later on I launched the student competition, which was fantastic because we had people contributing from all over the world and that was really exciting and we¹ve included quite a few on the site even the ones that didn¹t win. JR And most were of an extraordinarily high standard as well actually. SC Yes? I think it was very exciting, that people responded and jumped in? To some extent the architecture really captured the imagination. JR It¹s very visual. That¹s where the design and the visual aesthetics of the piece come in, isn¹t it? SC Very much so and in some respects this was very difficult as when people ask for an image to represent the project some architects seemed to get more exposure than others. Just a picture of the website is not very sexy so the architecture tends to be the flagship for the website. What has been really exciting is that the architects¹ designs have generated so much publicity and interest around the whole Tate in Space project. The architecture to some extent has driven it into a utopian vision?or almost a desire to build a Tate in Space. The project isn¹t necessarily advocating that that is what we should be doing, but is asking why we might wish to do it and actually questioning that ambition. I¹m not saying that we shouldn¹t be doing it either, I¹m just mirroring back. JR Well, and to be fictional and idealistic, it could happen one day, with all this talk in the press at the moment about space travel? SC It¹s possible! JR Yes. But it¹s interesting that you say that perhaps that isn¹t the right thing for us to be doing at this point and you¹re enticing Tate to question, and I guess the audience as well, why is it that we want to push all these boundaries to extend? SC Yes it¹s that human urge and competitive instinct - that bigger better, further, broader kind of thing - it¹s opening up a window on what it is that we can¹t almost help about ourselves. And it is meant to be a satirical site. I don¹t see the site as a spoof, I see it as a satire. A satire is more critical than a spoof, and as I said there¹s a lot of fact in it as well. JR Well all your [satellite] sightings: they were properly mapped weren¹t they? SC And what was quite interesting about that is that it became about using our low expectations of certain kinds of web technologies. So my web cam (the image was made up in fact of a bouncy ball on my table at home) was constructed through flash animation in such a way as to reflect our expectation that webcam images are jerky and unreliable (I even had to slow the whole thing down to make it more authentic and deliberately put in fuzz every so often so that people would really feel that it¹s having difficulty connecting). For people to believe it, it had to be authentically low res?.. JR I love the idea of people going outside and looking up to see the satellite passing when actually you could never see anything. You can¹t see satellites and yet for some reason they thought that because it¹s the Tate one maybe they would. SC Well I deliberately put the sightings data [online tables showing the times of day where the satellite could be seen in various cities] on the site because I really wanted people to have this idea that at certain times of the day from which ever city they were in they could look up and see it. I commissioned a space scientist [Caitriona Jackman] to actually come up with very accurate figures so that if any space scientists were actually looking at that sightings data they would surmise that this notional Tate Satellite was really out there?in the orbit that we said it was, and that it had been launched when we said it was, those figures are absolutely accurate? JR Sufficiently convincing that the British space agency did actually phone up Tate Modern and enquire, whether we had permission to launch this satellite! SC And I also had emails that the European space agency had actually believed it as well. Though there were some amusing emails from people who had really tested it out... they¹d unplugged themselves from the internet and everything, and thought it funny that it still kind of worked. But there were also people like my brother-in-law who really should have known that it wasn¹t real who spent the first day after the launch looking up to the sky at regular intervals. JR Wanting to believe it. Willing it to be there. SC Well he was deluded and was very disappointed when he realised that it wasn¹t actually there. And there were all sorts of other things?like a writer for a big Canadian newspaper who had their editor holding the front page for this major scoop? who I had to tell because really you can¹t let somebody lose their job and reputation over something like that. The whole press interest has been very interesting. Nobody so far has really critiqued it as an artwork, but people have got so excited about it as a possibility, as a construct? JR Weird? SC That it¹s not actually really been reviewed as an artwork? JR Very interesting point? SC The architectural projects have been reviewed in architectural magazines, there have been a lot of excited articles about the possibilities. It¹s been in design and style magazines around the world? JR Again I think that¹s a good point: people - art critics, the public, and other artists, net artists etc. don¹t quite know how to handle it, how to talk about it, what language to use... SC It doesn¹t fit? JR It doesn¹t fit the kind of formalist, you know, technically advanced net art that is technically challenging for artistic purposes. Instead, it¹s fundamentally conceptual, fictionally conceptual? SC It's very interesting, while I was working on it I suddenly realised that I¹d always thought that, actually I think we¹d all believed that interactive fiction would be this tedious thing of branching structures such as 'yes' or 'no' and 'this is the ending I want'. Then I suddenly realised that it was in fact a perfect example of how interactive or immersive fiction could be, with people actually fleshing this whole fiction out for themselves. People were coming at it from all different angles bringing their own desires to the project? JR This is interesting in terms of the web experience and ?what is a satisfying web experience?¹ which is of interest now. What you are suggesting is that it isn¹t limited to the screen? SC No, it¹s directed at the imagination. It¹s not purely about me delivering content to viewers so that they can then choose which part of it they explore. It¹s about delivering another kind of architectural space if you like, the architecture of the web delivering a public space that people can then occupy and inhabit and make happen or not as they desire. To choose to believe or not. You asked earlier about the discussion and the range of people that participated. Some were very serious and some thought it was great fun and were actually being quite satirical in their discussions, so it was really a collision of those different things. I like the idea of it as forming almost a model of what an immersive or interactive fiction might look like. It¹s just one model of, of many. But that really occurred to me when I was working on it, and that really excited me, that it was playing with that idea? of constructing a collective fiction, constructed from a collective space? JR Do you think this collective fiction can continue? I mean there are major elements that remain - for instance you can still download the models and create them - but several of the contributory, participatory elements have ceased. Maybe it¹s an impossible question to answer, but what do you anticipate will be the future of the project? My sense is that with distance people will find it much easier to talk about it and actually I¹m really looking forward to that point, when critics feel that they are in a position to understand, discuss and critique it as a work of art. But can people still enjoy and experience it fully now that it¹s past its evolutionary phase? SC Well, I¹ve taken the time sensitive information off it, so, for instance? JR It still has February sightings doesn¹t it though? SC It does, but it was originally February '2003', specifically dated sightings?I did this for the first year. So I just took the year off the dates so the whole thing has lost it¹s time sensitivity. I didn¹t want the site to remain 'active' for more than a year. It always had two routes that people could get to it through, one was the fictional, the unknowing route, which was through the front page that really looked like you know? JR It was real, it was the fifth gallery Liverpool, St Ives, Modern, Britain, Space. SC But if people came to it via the other route, the net art route then it would be much clearer that it was a construct ?with the [Paul Bonaventura's] contextual essay and so forth, so there was always these two, the knowing and unknowing participants if you like. So now it¹s only the knowing route although it¹s now linked to from so many sites worldwide that people can still get directly to it and within the Tate site structure <tate.org.uk/space>, so hopefully it¹s always going to be there. That¹s rather wonderful because every so often I do a search on Tate in Space to see where it¹s got to, and this week I found it as a part of educational lecture for people who are learning about galleries and things like that. It¹s down dead seriously as another Tate and people are encouraged to look at it, so it has actually gone out. JR Which is precisely what we wanted it to do! I mean these commissions are largely intended to take Tate ?beyond the gallery walls¹ and somehow reach new audiences, and it¹s achieved exactly that! SC And the Tate webcam for the Tate satellite is actually listed on webcam sites. As they have different categories for Europe, South America et., now they have a category for space and there¹s only one webcam listed there - and it¹s ours! I think the fact that BT sponsors the Tate website makes it more plausible. You know there is a sort of plausibility and authenticity that one associates with the project, particularly at this moment in time in terms of web technology, webcam technology and also branding and interest in space. It¹s the right time for this Tate in Space to actually make sense? JR And it is so in tune with Tate¹s ambitions - not only, on the kind of micro level in terms of these commissions and what Tate is trying to achieve in reaching new audiences, but also in terms of setting up new outposts. I think there is something in that. That is why it¹s so plausible and people so wish it to be true. Because of that, to critique it is very difficult. SC Well it¹s also operating on so many different levels and in so many different directions, from the kind of distribution access of the tangible Blue Peteresque models to the whole architectural thing, which has taken on a whole life of it¹s own. It has been an umbrella structure for all these kind of sub commissions to emerge through that. It's [a project] that¹s meant to open up and create opportunities within it. The only opportunities we haven¹t created are new jobs, which - JR I love - I love the fact that you had Tate staff asking for transfers? SC This is true. I¹ve also had people asking if there are possibilities for internships and various things like that. There are other things on the site that were also a kind of link between the fiction and the plausible?and the fact that [Tate in Space] is still far away enough for it to be this fantasy that people can get excited about, but its just near enough that it¹s becoming plausible that we could have put a satellite up there. Obviously people have satellites up there, for instance BT satellites? JR And as you point out in the FAQ, that¹s not very expensive. It costs the same amount as it costs to buy a house in parts of London. SC Just to get a little small one up there?and it was the generosity of the space scientist that I met with [Dr Andrew Coates], that gave me some fundamental information about this. This meant that the Tate in Space site, for anybody that even knew a little bit about the subject, kept its plausibility. Which is why, I think, some scientists, who probably ought to have known that it wasn¹t really real, were at a superficial level fooled by it. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 8. Date: 5.14.04 - 5.26.04 From: Patrick Simons (patricksimons AT gloriousninth.com), Michael Szpakowski (szpako AT yahoo.com), atomic elroy (atomic AT pcisys.net), Kate Southworth (katesouthworth AT gloriousninth.com), Rob Myers (robmyers AT mac.com), Christina McPhee (christina112 AT earthlink.net) Subject: new work: gloriousninth flaming Patrick Simons <patricksimons AT gloriousninth.com> posted: http://www.gloriousninth.com/flaming.html Glorious Ninth Flaming (our/your/their rage) 2004 All debate about ownership and empowerment, democracy and accountability, long term perspectives and global, environmental issues are trodden underfoot and a chilling efficiency in dehumanising whole societies and populations, is allowed to remove any possibility of debate and empathic shared existence with those about to die. Flaming (our/your/their rage) is a release of anger and frustration against the powerful. Power and rage smashes a country already suffering. A lack of power to control everything provokes this rage. Artist, activist, freedom fighter, terrorist - where do our liberal values start and stop? Rage of the new yorkers, rage of america as they experienced violation. Rage at our collective lack of insight and our/your/their crouched/couched response. Rage that they/you/we want revenge. Rage at the twittery of politicians, their sell-out, and our stupidity to think they might be something they could be. Rage at our own hypocrisy. Rage at the defeat of the left, and at the utter abandonment of real hope. Rage at the inadequacies of intellectual arguments. Rage that there isn't an easy answer. Rage that itâ??s complex and there's not enough time in a life-time. Rage that there's no serious debate about what we actually want and about how it can be achieved and about how we understand the world. What is dished out from our representatives is simplistic, fundamentalist medieval crap. How can it be that I am either with you or against you? How can the means justify the ends justify the means? How can there be an axis of evil? How can this axis of evil shift so much that it obliterates "allies" who "stood by our side" so recently. How can this be the path of righteousness and the act of a democratic society when carpet bombing, depleted uranium shells and the full might of the very latest technologies - which we spend so much time discussing in terms of the alienating nature of its inherent logic - is used to incapacitate people/countries/societies in the name of progress and future generations? + + + Michael Szpakowski (szpako AT yahoo.com) replied: For a cry of rage, Patrick, it's extraordinarily, viscerally beautiful. ( and this is true of the sound too, the intensity of which complements the visuals wonderfully) There's a real intentionality problem for me with yours and Kate's work - I just find it gobsmackingly gorgeous. + + + atomic elroy <atomic AT pcisys.net> replied: All political manifestations no matter how selfless are based on a basic form of fascism... trying to control other people's behavior, which is impossible. Certain sociological norms are agreed upon in groups. yet, one can't control another's behavior. the futility of this is manifest in reactive rage. this is a physically violent universe, that only stays in existence with the balance of passivity. once one realizes this most emotional extremes become comical. can rage be droll? did I say that out LOUD? + + + Kate Southworth <katesouthworth AT gloriousninth.com> replied: Hi Michael Thank you for your interest in our work, and for your comments. I'm really interested in what you're saying, but not quite clear exactly what you mean. Are you saying that because you find the work beautiful then it can't adequately express emotion? And 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely - one that changes its meaning through time, just as 'art' and 'creativity', for example, change their meaning. I know you fairly well Michael, so would be surprised if you were advocated a kind of illustrative response to war. I've played the piece a few times since your post, and the more I look at it, the more I understand my own response to the war. It is response that draws on emotion, intuition, analysis, sensations, and relates, like all our work tries to, to the constant changes and interactions, processes and relations that make up our world. Intentionality of the artist is something I am becoming increasingly interested in, and it seems to be quite a contested area amongst art historians. A real understanding of the implications of the different positions regarding intentionality seems to me to be critically important right now, because so many of the processes, tools, methods etc. that artists use are being increasingly incorporated. So, I'm open to any ideas whatsoever regarding intentionality. + + + Michael Szpakowski added: < Are you saying that because you find the work beautiful then it can't adequately express emotion?> Absolutely not! The emotion I tend to experience on looking at quite a lot of your work I suppose I could characterize as something near to joy -I find it exhilarating, this piece particularly so. Its to do with both the look and the manner of unfolding of each piece. Maybe its a kind of aesthetic joy in that I'm responding to the enormously satisfying formal attributes of each work first and foremost < 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely -> one that changes its meaning through time,> well ---yes--ok but for me subjectively I *know* whether something is or isn't beautiful -its a bit Wittgensteininan this isn't it- like I *know* when I'm in pain. < I know you fairly well Michael, so would be surprised if you were advocated a kind of illustrative response to war. > I don't advocate or not advocate. In *my* work my unconscious and my consciencedetermines whether a piece is finished/satisfactory -in the work of others its a combination of my inital affective and subsequent intellectual response to the complex of factors going on in any particular work that leads me to find a work satisfactory, unsatisfactory or problematic. "If This is a Man" is *the* 20th century work about the depths barbarism -& one could say that it is entirely illustrative -there are other works , made in the same period that eschew direct description partially or completely -the surrealists, a little bit earlier, spring to mind. 'Guernica' although illustrative is a halfway house. The place for the beautiful for me is as a kind of counter example, it offers us a kind of utopian possibility, plus that hope that human intervention in the world *as art* brings me anyway. I entirely accept that its possible to view your piece as a response to the current sitatuion and hence to war in general and lots of other related topics -I think that what bothers me is your attempt to direct us there in the accompanying atatement -I find these things a closing off of meaning -I think I'm in favour of a division of labour between artist and viewer/critic -artist makes and critic/viewer interprets/responds -I don't feel puritanical about it though -I think its perfectly reasonable, for example, for us to benefit from an interview with an artist about her intentions in a particular work or group of works.( see the interesting discussion on Rhizome initiated by Curt Cloninger a bit back) SO -intentionality.. I'm totally unconvinced that the makers of the most interesting works of art either can or should try and delineate what those works are about, what those works contain -why? because the best art, it seems to me, is a dialogue between the artist's unconscious ( and I don't just mean a freudian unconscious but one that contains all sorts of social/political/historical/cultural debris from the artist's life in the world) and that wider world, mediated thorugh the ability to urgently engage us through the conscious patterning of the raw material by the exercise of a high degree of craft. Ultimately I think we make our boats and set them sail on the water without a fixed itinerary - they might reach ports of call we never dreamed of. + + + Rob Myers <robmyers AT mac.com> added: >And 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely - one that changes its >meaning through time, just as 'art' and 'creativity', for example, change >their meaning. As are and do all concepts if one examines them. :-) >So, I'm open to any ideas whatsoever regarding intentionality. I'd recommend Adorno's writing on commited art and commitment. I think some is in "Art in Theory", I can't find anything useful with a quick web search. + + + Christina McPhee <christina112 AT earthlink.net> added: Dear Kate, and Patrick, . . . Re the complex concept of beautiful... Bracha Ettinger recently wrote several posts on trauma, beauty, war and artistic practice for the <underfire> project hosted by Jordan Crandall. I would like to quote her here because I think this issue of what beauty is and does in a time of war is fascinating and certainly points to your work at gloriousninth. > War is not this instant event that creates just instant reactions of instant > feeling that of necessity will produce art. War is always > shockingly instant but also traumatizing in the long run and for the > generations to come. It creates vagues and vibrations on many levels and art > is involved with its chords on so many different levels. Instant reactions are > important, but they are not necessarily art, even when they are translated > into images made by artists and signed as art. Paul Celan's poetry was not > born in the same day, nor in the day after the event. So perhaps when you look > in the day after for poetry you see nothing of this order. There, where art > becomes, layer of layers of traces, conscious and unconscious, are working > through. . . . > We are carrying in this second half of the twentieth century enormous > traumatic weight, and wit(h)nessing in/by art brings it to culture¹s surface, > not in the same instant, and not necessarily by direct witnessing. Certain > contemporary art-practices bring into light what I have named matrixial > alliances in confronting the limits of share-ability in the trauma and the > jouissance of the Other. The effects accessed via artworks in our era ? and I > emphasize again our era since we are living through massive effects of > transitive trauma overlapping massive instant-images of war ? carry new > possibilities for affective apprehending and produce new kinds of "beauty", > where esthetics approaches ethics, where ethics penetrates the aesthetic. And in an earlier comment, Bracha tries to describe that process... > Aesthetical is the trauma's > transformed affectability in wit(h)nessing in/by art, beyond time and in > different sites and spaces, yet it has ethical and even therapeutic > consequences. Ethical is a new healing potential offered by the idea of > wit(h)nessing though it is profoundly aesthetic, or though it is > transferred by aesthetical means. The beautiful today is what submits > whatever will succeed - as object, subject or event - to offer > reaffectation-as-redistribution and absorbency of traumatic traces of > Thing-event, Thing-encounter and wit(h)ness-Thing, diffracted. > Beauty is core to the trauma and to the 'redistribution' in the network. + + + Kate Southworth replied: . . . I'm sorry that its taken a while to respond to your post, but I am largely unfamiliar with Bracha Ettinger's work, and its taken me a few days of reading and re-reading these excerpts to get a sense of her ideas. I'm a bit blown away by them actually. It feels like I've found what I didn't know I was missing. They've provoked in me an extraordinarily strong intuitive and emotional response, and I just want to go and read more. + + + Christina McPhee replied: Wow, its great to discover common ground (even if so shifting, so hard to sort out, so dark). Yes, Bracha is on to something important, that is pretty hard to talk about. Some observations that have meant a lot to me regarding trauma and the function of the work of art come from Hal Foster... specifically, in "This Funeral is for the Wrong Corpse," in Design and Crime, London and New York: Verso, 2003 pp. 130f. He writes on an installation by Robert Gober and the things he says, as well as the work of Gober itself, illuminate the 'trauma/beauty' aesthetic that arises from the current horrible mix of amnesia, racism, sexual trauma and violence going on in the Iraqi war. Hal Foster touches on a kind of delay, or lag in the evocation of traumatic experience--"this paradoxical modality -- of experience that is not experienced, at least not punctually, that comes too early or too late to be registered consciously, that can only be repeated compulsively or pieced together after the fact..." (p. 131)> He reminds us of the novels of Ian McEwan, Toni Morrison, and the films of Atom Egoyan, among others. I too 've tried to make art about this in installation and in net art on <http://www.naxsmash.net>. I have tried to write about this also <http://www.naxsmash.net/public_html/texts/McPheeNaxsmash_files.htm> I work with the poetry of Paul Celan for noflightzone with similar motives (<http://www.naxsmash.net/noflightzone/texthtml/noflightzone.html>) >From Foster's pov as a critic to Bracha as therapist/artist, I triangulate a another couple of questions or desires about the process of making art in this condition of trauma. So far as I know Bracha is the only observer who has carried this notion of delay, this 'too early, too late' further into an inquiry into the creative process dynamic between trauma, oblivion, retreat, witness and beauty. I think it's cool to listen to her voice a bit more fully at this moment. Here again Is Bracha on the underfire list, from March 29, 2004: > it is indeed possible that > some kinds of work need another kind of time to be effective, and that > curators are missing the less-instant NOW in their rush for the INSTANT now. > War is not this instant event that creates just instant reactions of instant > feeling that of necessity will produce art. War is always > shockingly instant but also traumatizing in the long run and for the > generations to come. It creates vagues and vibrations on many levels and art > is involved with its chords on so many different levels. Instant reactions are > important, but they are not necessarily art, even when they are translated > into images made by artists and signed as art. Paul Celan's poetry was not > born in the same day, nor in the day after the event. So perhaps when you look > in the day after for poetry you see nothing of this order. There, where art > becomes, layer of layers of traces, conscious and unconscious, are working > through. > > We are carrying in this second half of the twentieth century enormous > traumatic weight, and wit(h)nessing in/by art brings it to culture¹s surface, > not in the same instant, and not necessarily by direct witnessing. Certain > contemporary art-practices bring into light what I have named matrixial > alliances in confronting the limits of share-ability in the trauma and the > jouissance of the Other. The effects accessed via artworks in our era ? and I > emphasize again our era since we are living through massive effects of > transitive trauma overlapping massive instant-images of war ? carry new > possibilities for affective apprehending and produce new kinds of "beauty", > where esthetics approaches ethics, where ethics penetrates the aesthetic. > > As an artist, you need time for linking with the other, then you need to creat > contitions for this opening for others and yourself, you need both remembering > and oblivion and to work through the working-through that goes between. > > Both the memory of oblivion and the movement of retreat - that involve > engagement with traces of the trauma of the other that are trans-scrypted in > me - are not possible unless aleady a potentiality for transgressing by > borderlinking has arised and is arising in and by the artwork and not at all > at the limit of the whole subject in full self-identity. > > Dwelling in this sphere of transgressive becoming-together, of co-emerging and > co-fading, can hurt too much, and so, most people most of the time leave it > aside. Some kind of art allows precisely this and leads precisely there: into > a retreat inside this matrixial sphere, where you discover that to withdraw > inside, with the artwork, is precisely to allow the immensity of this sphere > to overwhelm you. > > That you (or me) , as a viewer, want to join me (or you), as an artist, at > this precise move of withdrawal, allows me (as artist) to stay there a little > longer and come out of it with some new works of art. > The interlacement of borderlinks coming from the one and the other embraces, > but also allows this fragility to occur. The working-through in > co-habit(u)ating a transgressive "in-betweeness" space exposes each hollow > space of retreat to a potentiality for further linking. Such a work is thus a > continual working-through of transgression itself. Thus, the different facets > of the work are instants of co-emergence at the heart of co-fading, under a > diffracted and shareable gaze. I believe that emphaty is rooted in such > artworks and in this kin kind of transference-relationships. + + + Michael Szpakowski replied: I agree that this looks both interesting and pertinent..well.. to a point because I do not understand what <We are carrying in this second half of the twentieth century enormous traumatic weight, and wit(h)nessing in/by art brings it to culture¹s surface, not in the same instant, and not necessarily by direct witnessing. Certain contemporary art-practices bring into light what I have named matrixial alliances in confronting the limits of share-ability in the trauma and the jouissance of the Other.> means. What the fuck does wit(h)nessing mean? This sort of obscurantism is really a blight on what seems like an interesting set of notions trying to escape! I refuse to believe that what is of worth in there cannot be expressed more directly - it does seem to have a bearing on the intentions and the mechanics of your work & especially the latest, pity its not expressed more clearly. + + + Rob Myers replied: . . . > This sort of obscurantism is really a blight on what > seems like an interesting set of notions trying to > escape! It seems like it is (regarded as) a necessary use of language to express an interesting set of notions. > I refuse to believe that what is of worth in there > cannot be expressed more directly - it does seem to > have a bearing on the intentions and the mechanics of > your work & especially the latest, pity its not > expressed more clearly. I don't think you mean "directly", that would be hard to get in an email, perhaps a scream would be better. I think you mean "clearly and simply". Which is fine for a VCR manual but often useless for art. Paraphrasing meaning can lose meaning. I dislike language games for the sake of it, but this seems to be for the sake of meaning. Give it the benefit of the doubt and see what emerges. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 9. Date: 5.24.04 - 5.25.04 From: ryan griffis (grifray AT yahoo.com), t.whid (twhid AT twhid.com), [ l o u s u S i ] (loususi AT bijaxous.com), Ann Tomoko Yamamoto (yamamoto_ann AT yahoo.co.jp), Rachel Greene (rachel AT rhizome.org) Subject: rhizome needs to drop its membership fee and free its content [cont.] [note: this thread is this week's addendum to the much more active discussion of last week, which can be read in full at Fresh Texts under the subject header of the same name] ryan griffis (grifray AT yahoo.com) added: Patrick Simons (patricksimons AT gloriousninth.com) said: > I undestand the push for removing the $5 but I dont think it would > solve the underlying questions, if the choice is an org which is > dependent on unaccountable trust funds or membership based, the > latter is so much more what this whole community is about. certainly, i don't think t.whid's initial question was about "to pay or not to pay." i think the idea is that for those of us who consider ourselves invested in Rhizome as an activity/forum, it would be great if it could be expanded for temporary publics that may not be interested in Rhizome as a long term community or as a participant, but may have short term interests (research, curiosity, etc.). This is not a matter of whether members would/should pay for supporting omething they are part of, but is rather about WHAT members are paying for. hence t.whid's concern about linking and the future posterity of Rhizome as an active resource. Anyway, many arguments about logistics and needs/desires could be made, and i'm not making any at the moment (though those desiring feeds have my ear), but i think it's important to not take the discussion back to the $5 argument, as i don't think anyone is wanting to financially desert Rhizome. + + + t.whid (twhid AT twhid.com) replied: Ryan is correct. I don't think the fee is evil or bad, in fact, i think everyone should all donate by a factor of 5x the current fee (at least). What is bad is that it locks down the free-flow of info. By all means have a fee with features attached that don't interfere with free linkage. But, as Curt pointed out, you *can* link to individual articles. I tested this and it seems to be true (Francis please confirm). If you go here http://x-arn.org/artnode/ you can see a list of fresh texts (click Rhizome Fresh Texts) and you can also link to an RSS feed of these fresh texts. If you click on the links from the web site you go directly to the Rhiz article whether you're logged in or not. (For some reason when following links from my news reader I can't go directly to the article:( i go to the log-in screen ) I was wrong, it seems anyone can link to any article and anyone can follow those links to the articles as long as the referrer isn't Rhizome or if the referrer doesn't exist. Is that how it works? The problem then, isn't IF you can link to Rhiz articles, it's that Rhiz doesn't seem to want non-members to link to Rhiz articles because they make it hard to do so by not providing the tools (RSS feeds with subjects/descriptions of articles). For example, if I'm a non-member of Rhizome, how do I decide I would like to link to an article on the home page? I see the headline, I see a short description, but I can't read the entire thing to decide.. unless someone (other than Rhiz) provides me with a link.. or I make it myself.. This is just kinda nutty functionality (i understand it was a compromise): only people other than Rhiz can provide access to non-members. ... or perhaps this is me just whining because I want a fully functioning Rhizome Raw in my news reader so I can clear out my email box ;-) + + + [ l o u s u S i ] (loususi AT bijaxous.com) replied: Hey - if this $ thing is such an issue - why don't the people who are so inclined not to pay a mere $5 found their own community-based new media site of some sort or just converse for free w/ the people they already know in the industry? i don't get the argument really : if you want to join costco to by inexpensive mayonnaise in 5 gallon jugs - you pay like $35 a year and get all these deals in the club > if you don't like that business model, or if you don't want the products they have there, then you usually go to the local grocery store instead it's a nearly-free country + + + Ann Tomoko Yamamoto added (yamamoto_ann AT yahoo.co.jp) [fwd from Rachel Greene (rachel AT rhizome.org)] This thread is fascinating. I read through the posts in the digest version, and can I add my 2 cents? This seems like a variation on the classic free rider problem: With every new member, the entire Rhizome becomes richer. But at the same time, communities are expensive to maintain (sewage lines, self-defense, etc.) Impose a tax and you kill the community, but without a tax everyone is a free rider and the community withers away under piles of uncollected garbage. The entire field of urban planning emerged precisely in response to these kinds of problems, and you can see there are no easy answers -- gated communities, privatized public spaces, business improvement districts, etc etc. It seems to me that an issue with this kind of significance is fertile ground for media/net/interactive/digital art. The problem of sustaining community involves technology, design, architecture, human behavior, economics, global politics, local culture, public policy. Yes, mobile phones and games are important, but (I think) art cries out first and foremost for relevance; I might be totally naïve, but I think this could be framed as a media art problem, and not an administrative problem. What do you think? + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Rhizome.org is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization and an affiliate of the New Museum of Contemporary Art. Rhizome Digest is supported by grants from The Charles Engelhard Foundation, The Rockefeller Foundation, The Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, and with public funds from the New York State Council on the Arts, a state agency. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Rhizome Digest is filtered by Kevin McGarry (kevin AT rhizome.org). ISSN: 1525-9110. Volume 9, number 22. Article submissions to list AT rhizome.org are encouraged. Submissions should relate to the theme of new media art and be less than 1500 words. For information on advertising in Rhizome Digest, please contact info AT rhizome.org. To unsubscribe from this list, visit http://rhizome.org/subscribe. Subscribers to Rhizome Digest are subject to the terms set out in the Member Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php. Please invite your friends to visit Rhizome.org on Fridays, when the site is open to members and non-members alike. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + |
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