The Rhizome Digest merged into the Rhizome News in November 2008. These pages serve as an archive for 6-years worth of discussions and happenings from when the Digest was simply a plain-text, weekly email.

Subject: RHIZOME DIGEST: 01.27.06
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:33:03 -0800

RHIZOME DIGEST: January 27, 2006

++ Always online at ++


1. Francis Hwang: Patrick May to be the next Director of Technology

2. violettafusco AT Call for South Asian Artists: ArtWallah 2006
3. marc garrett: Music, Art and Climate Change
4. me AT Residency in Newcastle upon Tyne and Sunderland
(UK) - corrected dates
5. Cary Peppermint: Open Call for Sound Works : WILD INFORMATION NETWORK

6. Max Herman: Genius 2000: A New Network
7. Mark Tribe: I Taught Myself Everything I Know: Autodidactism in New
Media Art
8. Mark Tribe: Wiki Directory of Academic Art and Technology Programs
9. marc garrett: New Sound & Reviews at

+Commissioned by

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Rhizome is now offering Organizational Subscriptions, group memberships
that can be purchased at the institutional level. These subscriptions
allow participants at institutions to access Rhizome's services without
having to purchase individual memberships. For a discounted rate, students
or faculty at universities or visitors to art centers can have access to
Rhizome?s archives of art and text as well as guides and educational tools
to make navigation of this content easy. Rhizome is also offering
subsidized Organizational Subscriptions to qualifying institutions in poor
or excluded communities. Please visit for
more information or contact Lauren Cornell at LaurenCornell AT

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From: Francis Hwang <francis AT>
Date: Jan 26, 2006
Subject: Patrick May to be the next Director of Technology

Hi everybody,

Last November, I notified the Rhizome community that I would soon be
stepping down as Rhizome's Director of Technology. Today, I'm very happy
to announce that our next Director of Technology will be Patrick May.

Patrick comes to Rhizome with an exceptional background in both technology
and in the arts. His previous position at the publishing company Source
Media gives him extensive experience with developing and maintaining
large, content-driven sites with limited resources, and this experience
will come in handy at a highly dynamic, community-oriented website like
Rhizome. He is also active in the free software and Ruby communities: He
is the creator of the Ruby-Web library, and has presented at the
International Ruby Conference.

Patrick is also the cofounder and Director of Programming at the
Williamsburg-based artists' collective Open Ground, helping to guide the
consensus-based curatorial process that furnished Grand Street with four
years' worth of always surprising group shows. He is an artist himself,
and his creative practice incorporates a software library he created that
automatically publishes consecutive iterations of images to an artists'
blog; he discussed this tool at Rhizome's second "Blogging and the Arts"
panel discussion.

Being Rhizome's Director of Technology, of course, requires more than just
a knowledge of programming, and more than a familiarity with new media
arts. Rhizome has always been an undersized organization with oversized
ambitions, and we continue to explore ways to deepen the nascent
connections between art and technology. Patrick's resume hits a lot of the
right topics, but what's most important is that he's able to think of the
big picture--not just in terms of artworks and lines of code, but also in
terms of organizations and communities. I'm confident that he will make
the perfect partner for Lauren and Marisa as the three of them lead
Rhizome in the future. We've accomplished a lot in the last year, and I'm
excited to see what changes will come in the years ahead.

We are expecting the transition process to work like this: Patrick will
come in on February 2nd, and he and I will work side-by-side throughout
February as I train him in. My last day will be March 3rd, but even after
then I'll still be available to Patrick & the organization in general.

I'm quite happy to leave this job in Patrick's capable hands. I hope you
all welcome him as kindly as you welcomed me.

Francis Hwang
Director of Technology
phone: 212-219-1288x202
AIM: francisrhizome

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From: violettafusco AT <violettafusco AT>
Date: Jan 22, 2006
Subject: Call for South Asian Artists: ArtWallah 2006

The ArtWallah Festival, a multi-disciplinary arts festival of the South
Asian diaspora, is seeking innovative and original work from artists and
artist-activists that address political, personal, or cultural
celebrations / struggles, for its seventh annual event.

Started by a group of artists and community activitists in 1999, ArtWallah
is a grassroots initiative responding to the need for a platform of
expression and a channel of communication between South Asian diasporic
artists and their communities. Since its humble beginnings ArtWallah has
grown and continues to do so, attracting larger audiences and an
increasing number of participants from all over the world.

ArtWallah allows you to share your work with a diverse audience while also
offering you a venue to meet and collaborate with both established and
emerging artists. Please join us in Los Angeles, CA June 2006 for a
powerful weekend of community building through dance, film, music,
literature, theatre, visual/new media arts, and spoken word.

We are very pleased to announce that this year?s festival will take place
from June 22-25, at three new venues: We?ll start off the festival on
Thursday night at the movies, screening films at one of LA?s best
independent cinema houses. On Friday, live bands and DJs will entertain at
one of the city?s best music clubs. And on Saturday and Sunday, June 24
and 25, the ArtWallah Festival will be at the Japanese American Cultural
and Community Center, in the heart of Little Tokyo, in Downtown Los
Angeles. The JACCC offers an outdoor plaza, a large indoor art gallery, a
serene zen garden, many classrooms for workshops and panels, and the state
of the art Japan America Theatre.

We encourage you to submit your work to ArtWallah 2006. We strive to
showcase established and emerging artists of the highest quality, and seek
to include regions that are typically underrepresented in the South Asian
geography including Burma, the Maldives, Nepal, and Bhutan.

Please visit for submission guidelines
and application forms.

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Support Rhizome: buy a hosting plan from BroadSpire

Reliable, robust hosting plans from $65 per year.

Purchasing hosting from BroadSpire contributes directly to Rhizome's
fiscal well-being, so think about about the new Bundle pack, or any other
plan, today!

About BroadSpire

BroadSpire is a mid-size commercial web hosting provider. After conducting
a thorough review of the web hosting industry, we selected BroadSpire as
our partner because they offer the right combination of affordable plans
(prices start at $14.95 per month), dependable customer support, and a
full range of services. We have been working with BroadSpire since June
2002, and have been very impressed with the quality of their service.

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From: marc garrett <marc.garrett AT>
Date: Jan 23, 2006
Subject: Music, Art and Climate Change

Music, Art and Climate Change
In Association with Newcastle Science Festival
2006 &

You are invited to submit either an electro / acoustic composition or a
visual art presentation lasting no longer than 10 minutes on the theme of
climate change.

The winning entries and a selection of runners-up in each category will be
presented in a lunchtime concert in King's Hall, Newcastle University on
Friday 17th March.

A CD/ROM of the best entries will be compiled by will be
available at the concert and through the web site. The winners in each
category will also be presented with prizes of £150.

Although the prizes are only available to students all submissions will be
considered for inclusion on the CD-ROM.

The deadline is the 10th February 2006.

Any questions regarding performance requirements should be discussed with
Alison Lewis on [0191] 222 6093 or a.m.lewis AT

To submit, just send a link to your MP3 [don't send the actual file!] to
david AT

or send a CDR marked 'Music & Climate Change' to -
86 Sidney Grove, Fenham,
Newcastle upon Tyne,
NE4 5PE.

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From: c <me AT>
Date: Jan 24, 2006
Subject: Residency in Newcastle upon Tyne and Sunderland (UK) - corrected

The Polytechnic
Grow your own media at the AV festival
Call for applications for 2 week x 2 artists placement residencies
February 2006
Newcastle & Sunderland. UK

Deadline for applications 01-02-06
Decision made and applicants informed 03-02-06
Project start date 09-02-06
Project completion date with the 28-02-06

The Polytechnic, an artists group set up to develop the use of open
source software / media and recycled technology in the North east of
England is currently calling for applications for 2 x 2 week 'GYOML-
Grow Your Own Media Lab' project residencies - two artists placements
based in two NorthEast locations.

We are looking for an artist (one for each lab) to develop ideas and
produce an arts project, using pre-installed recycled/reclaimed
computer technology and open-source software (Linux based).

We are open to collaborations between the two artists based within the
two 'Grow your Own Media Labs'. The successful proposal for these
residencies will based on the strong idea's and the engagement with the
Lab and its' users.


The aims of the residency are:

To offer an artist the chance to develop ideas using or inspired by
open-source software in a supportive environment.

To offer the members of participating groups an introduction to the

possibilities offered by trailing edge technology.

Support user groups and contribute towards the development of a
sustainable strategy for the users of the labs

The Residency

The successful applicant will develop a project with a group over 5
days. You will also be on site for a discussed period of time to
provide informal support for users as well as documenting the process
online. There will also be time to develop / Open your own projects and
deliver a presentation of your work.

The Fee

A fee of £2000 will be offered to each of the successful applicants,
subject to the successful completion of the residency. Reasonable
travel and accommodation expenses will be paid where appropriate.


How to submit your proposal

Please email us a proposal, not more than 1 side of A4 plus your CV,
technical abilities, understanding of Open Source, your reason for
applying, the starting point/s for your project and how you would
approach the commission.

Please address the following points in your application:
1 - what form the finished work would take.
2 - how you propose to engage with the users of the labs.
3 - how much technical support would you need.
4 - how feasible is your project in the time available.

For more information, or to mail your proposal, please contact Dominic
or Sneha at The Polytechnic.

We apologise for the short deadline for application and project
completion timescale, this can be negotiable.

Dominic & Sneha

Please email proposals to:
dominic AT


'Gyoml' [Grow Your Own Media Lab] is a networked national project
initiated by Access Space, Sheffield.'

The Polytechnic 'Gyoml' project is working in collboration with the AV
Festival, this years theme is 'Life Like'.

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Rhizome ArtBase Exhibitions

Visit "Net Art's Cyborg[feminist]s, Punks, and Manifestos", an exhibition
on the politics of internet appearances, guest-curated by Marina Grzinic
from the Rhizome ArtBase.

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From: Cary Peppermint <cp70 AT>
Date: Jan 25, 2006
Subject: Open Call for Sound Works : WILD INFORMATION NETWORK

The Department of Ecology, Art, and Technology
Open Call for Sound Works In Mp3 Format - Deadline April 1, 2006

If we encountered a pod-cast, or a streaming radio server in the woods, in
the ?natural? environment, what kind of information would be distributed?
If there was an entity, a life-form, or a ?natural? other that
disseminated sonic information, wild-information, how would this
information sound? This project encourages artists to create audio sound
works that imagine the ?voice? of the ecological other and explore its
translation into the language of digital art technologies.

If ?nature? encountered a pod-cast, or a streaming radio server in the
woods, in the ?natural? environment, what kind of information would be
distributed? This project could take on unpredictable, interactive, and
experimental dimensions as it also encourages artists to consider
themselves as human animals, beings within ?nature? producing sound works
for unknowable others, e.g. ferns, salamanders, flowers, mosquito,
beetles, flowers, deer, coyotes, bear, water, etc.

WILD INFORMATION NETWORK is a project initiated by Cary Peppermint and The
Department of Ecology Art and Technology, a performative collaborative of
artists seeking to create works that explore issues that lie at the
intersection between new media technologies and the environment.

The project will establish a sonic field of information produced with
renewable energy, digital technologies, and ecological imagination. The
information will be a continuous, solar-powered series of audio
transmissions located relatively deep in the woods of 940 acres in the
upper Catskills of New York State. Visitors and hikers to the back woods
location will use 802.11 wireless devices, bluetooth-enabled devices, or
transistor radios to receive sonic information through digital downloads,
and radio transmissions.

This project is made possible by generous support from NYSFA's
Decentralization Grant, The Upper Catskills Community Center for the Arts,
and The Pine Lake Environmental Campus of Hartwick College.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 2005-2006 Net Art Commissions

The Rhizome Commissioning Program makes financial support available to
artists for the creation of innovative new media art work via
panel-awarded commissions.

For the 2005-2006 Rhizome Commissions, eleven artists/groups were selected
to create original works of net art.

The Rhizome Commissions Program is made possible by support from the
Jerome Foundation in celebration of the Jerome Hill Centennial, the
Greenwall Foundation, the Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, and
the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs. Additional support has
been provided by members of the Rhizome community.

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From: Max Herman <maxnmherman AT>
Date: Jan 23, 2006
Subject: Genius 2000: A New Network

Hi All,

This is just to announce that I have completed a book-sized manuscript
about Genius 2000, and it is now available for free at my website

In this book I try to accomplish several things: the development of
Genius 2000 ideas, the correction of certain errors, a reconciliation with
the war on terror, and an acceptance of my personal problems (among other

The book is written in the form of two thousand questions and answers,
each about a paragraph long. I call each of these questions and answers a
"quantum," in comparison to the original G2K ideas of "talent" and

Those who are already familiar with Genius 2000 will find new material
here as well as further development of original concepts. Those new to
Genius 2000 may be a little bit confused at first and may wish to refer to
the other material on the site (such as the Video First Edition
transcripts before reading the MS. On the other hand, it may also be
aesthetically preferable and more accurate to read the book first.

Thanks to all for your kind wishes, and happy new year!

Max Herman
The Genius 2000 Network

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From: Mark Tribe <mark.tribe AT>
Date: Jan 24, 2006
Subject: I Taught Myself Everything I Know: Autodidactism in New Media Art

I Taught Myself Everything I Know: Autodidactism in New Media Art

A panel discussion with Mary Flanagan, W. Bradford Paley, and Keiko
Uenishi AKA o.blaat, moderated by Mark Tribe

American Folk Art Museum
45 West 53rd Street (between 5th and 6th)
New York, NY

10am, Sunday, January 29. Coffee provided!
$10 general; $5 members, seniors, students

Moderator Mark Tribe, an artist, curator, and educator whose interests lie
at the intersection of emerging technologies and contemporary art, and
panelists Mary Flanagan, W. Bradford Paley, and Keiko Uenishi AKA o.blaat,
new media artists, will discuss the conceptual, aesthetic, and
technological demands of the field. The conversation will examine the
idea of what constitutes a self-taught new media artist, and whether this
terminology applies to digital artwork being created today.

For more information, please contact Diana Schlesinger
<dschlesinger AT>

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From: Mark Tribe <mark.tribe AT>
Date: Jan 24, 2006
Subject: Wiki Directory of Academic Art and Technology Programs


In 2004, I asked Michael Naimark to write an overview of academic art and
technology programs as part of a proposal I was preparing for Columbia
University. I wanted something comprehensive but with a point of view.
With the proliferation and growth of academic art and technology programs
around the world, Michael and I decided to use this material as the seed
for a wiki-based directory of academic art and technology programs. This
directory is now online at:

In its current form, the directory includes 38 art+tech programs, from the
Kunsthochschule fuer Medien (Academy of Media Arts) in Cologne to the USC
School of Cinema-Television Program in Interactive Media in Los Angeles.
What you'll find at the above URL is only the starting point. We hope this
directory will become a living resource for prospective students, faculty,
and others.

If you are a faculty member, staff member, or student at one of these
programs, please feel free to modify, update, or add information.

This directory is by no means comprehensive; if your program is missing,
we hope you'll add it to the list!

Best regards,

Mark Tribe
Department of Modern Culture and Media
Brown University

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From: marc garrett <marc.garrett AT>
Date: Jan 25, 2006
Subject: New Sound & Reviews at

New Sound & Reviews at

For the first edition of 2006, kick off your winter worn galoshas and step
into the warmth. Explore the varied and explorative talents featured on

Furthernoise features Canadian sonic comics The Dry Heeves and Dale Lloyds
collaborative album Amalgram on the net label Conv. The King of Norwegian
Noise, Lasse Marhaug is the subject of Mark Francombes feature on the
Norwegian Art Noise scene.

Other reviews include:

UK improvised guitar & drum duo Ian Kearey and Paul Wigens. Argentinian
orchestral composer Serge Smilovich. Italian ambient artist Enrico Cosimi.
Australian sonic art star Jodie Rose with her double album Singing Bridges
release Vibrations : Variations.

A/V Net performances now online.

And what seems to be of popular interest these days by the many visitors
to the site is, the A/V net performances on Visitors Studio, which the net art group Furtherfield has generously offered for us NoiseNiks to
creatively abuse at will;-)

We now have last years A/V net performances on Visitors Studio archived,
available through the following artists links in the Editors Forward. They
feature Mark Francombe, John Kannenberg, Chris Vine and french A/V duo
2Toms. Stretching the studio's capabilities to it's limits these
performances are some of the most innovative to date. Highly recommended
viewing / listening.

'Exploration in Sound' compilation.

Due to the encouraging success from various radio stations such as
resonance fm (UK) and Spanish radio, and many visitors downloading the Net
Label content, with some pretty cool feedback. We are now feverishly
setting up the next 'Exploration in Sound' compilation. - Explorations in Sound is a net label releasing
quarterly high quality MP3 compilations of adventurous critical music &
sounds. Each selection is a limited edition release, available free to
download (artwork included) for 3 months before being replaced by the next
editions compilation. We will be featuring a diverse array of artists and
groups who are pushing the boundaries of their genre and exploring new
terrains that communicate via sound.

We have an open submissions poilicy for these releases and you don't
necessarily have to be featured in any edition to be considered for
inclusion. Please visit the Furthenoise link at the top of the page for
more details.

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From: Lauren Cornell <laurencornell AT>
Date: Jan 27, 2006
Subject: An Interview with MTAA by Lauren Cornell

+Commisssioned by

An Interview with MTAA by Lauren Cornell

+ + +

Artists M. River and T. Whid formed MTAA in 1996 and soon after began to
explore the internet as a medium for public art. The duo?s exhibition
history includes group shows and screenings at The New Museum of
Contemporary Art, Postmasters Gallery and Artists Space, all in New York
City, and at The Getty Research Institute in Los Angeles. International
exhibitions include the Seoul Net & Film Festival in Korea and Videozone2
- The 2nd International Video Art Biennial in Israel. In the forthcoming
New Media Art (Taschen, 2006), authors Mark Tribe and Reena Jana describe
MTAA?s 1 year performance video (aka samHsiehUpdate) as ?a deftly
transparent demonstration of new media?s ability to manipulate our
perceptions of time.? The collaboration has also earned grants and awards
from, Eyebeam, New Radio & Performing Arts, Inc. and The
Whitney Museum?s Artport web site.

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LAUREN CORNELL: Can you tell me a little bit about your net art
pre-history, and how you met and started collaborating?

M. RIVER: I began working with performance and collaboration in grad
school at Cranbrook (outside of Detroit). Driving North nonstop for 4 days
until the road runs out, breaking into stranger?s yards and mowing their
lawns, backyard camping at mansions?my friends and I did these things
together and called it ?Art.? It felt like ?odd sculpture? for me then.
What I do with Tim in MTAA often reminds me of that feeling. From
Cranbrook, I headed blindly to Brooklyn where coincidentally, Tim had also
just moved. One day Tim called and asked if I wanted to collaborate on
some paintings. I said, ?Yes.? And we?ve been working together under the
name MTAA since.

T. WHID: I was working exclusively on underground comics, but I wanted to
work on a painting. First I called a mutual friend to see if he wanted to
collaborate. He declined but suggested I call M. since he had some
canvasses stretched. We both thought the collaboration successful and
continued working together.

LC: Something distinctive to me about MTAA is the heavy ratio of
youthfulness you bring to everything. The voice that broadcasts out of
your work or your blog is one that is always questioning and critical, and
sometimes feels as angry as your average 16-year-old punk. You?ve told me
before that people found you aggressive or crude. Do you find your
attitude clashes with larger new media mores or manners?

MR: I think it is important to note that MTAA is performed. In MTAA, I
work under the name ?Mark River.? This is not my name. (It?s Michael Sarff
? for the Rhizome record.) The M. River voice?in our work or on our
blog?is not exactly mine. It?s something used to create a world. Yes, you
might read it as a world full of young DIY punks who want to tear things
down and build new things up, but I?m not sure if that?s what our voice is
all about in the end. I also think our voice has a little more depth than
your average 16-year-old. (Then again...)

I do think our voice sometimes rubs people the wrong way. I?m not sure
why. It might be that people feel more comfortable with art that?s aloof.
Humor doesn?t always play well in the art world. As for aggressive or
crude, I personally would like to see more ?R? and ?NC-17? new media and
net artworks. Not that I would like everything to be blood and guts or
that Tim and I strive for that in our work. I just feel that we need to
get over the Science Fair default values of computer art. It?s boring.
That?s my 16 year old boy answer. That and I ?heart? JODI. As for MTAA
brawls, no, we get along swell.

TW: Hmmm. Am I totally deluded in not really seeing myself that way? I do
think that a lot of new media curators don?t see our work in the ?big
story.? The problem with the new media art establishment is that it?s
based too much in academia (since there isn?t much of a market). Our
voice, compared to this academic voice, might seem immature or angry, but
in my opinion, it?s just normal.

Anyway, we?re old fogies compared to the likes of Cory Arcangel and Paper

LC: Both of you have been involved with Rhizome since its beginning. As my
job now involves mapping Rhizome?s future (in collaboration with my
colleagues, and the broader Rhiz network of course), I find myself
constantly considering the organization's history: how it has grown, and
made efforts to adapt to the changing conditions of the web, and
concurrently, to internet art and new media.

Now, Rhizome's constituency is very broad. But, when it first started as a
mailing list, it was quite small. People talk to me a lot about these
early days during which net art belonged to an avant-garde of first
adopters, an avant-garde that Rhizome, and other platforms like Nettime
and the Thing, were home to. What was your impression of Rhizome, and its
community, at that time?

MR: Just to skip down to the bottom line, I think people participating on
Rhizome specifically, and the net in general, tended to experiment more in
the beginning. Luckily, play and experimentation seem to be part of net?s
heart, so new weird things still show up.

TW: Rhizome was the first place that I found online where people talked
about art and took it seriously. At first I remember being confused by the
whole net art thing. I remember a contest to crown ?Mr. Net Art? (I think
Robin Murphy won). I was also confused by Robin?s wrestling posts (do a
deep Rhizome search for that one). I lurked for a long time before I took
part in the discussion, then it was mostly ?Direct To Your Home Art
Pojects? ( emails.

LC: Who did you admire then, or whose work informed yours?

MR: I was looking at works by the original ?net.artists? (JODI, Shulgin,
Lialina, Cosic, etc) as well as Potatoland, Fakeshop,, Murph the
surf, meiko and ryu, one38, Kanarek?s World of Awe, restlessculture, the
McCoys, GH, eToy, 01etc, Pavu, RSG, EDT, Wolfgang, blackhawk and
Mouchette. It seems like I could on for a long time with this list but
these are some names that jumped up.

LC: That seems like a very heady, and exciting time, those were the first
artists to hash out Internet art as a form. No wonder you made the switch
from painting and comics.. What kind of work were you making at the time?

TW: Our first piece for the web was ?Buying Time: The Nostalgia Free
History Sale?
We didn?t even have a computer when we started this project. We did it at
Creative Time?s offices (I remember not knowing what an HTML comment was).
After that we used Rhizome and other email lists as a platform for the
?Direct To Your Home Art Projects? ( which was
our second online project.

LC: With Both "Buying Time" and "Direct To Your Home Art Projects," and
later works, you translate Fluxus, or conceptual art practices, to the

In your piece, "Five Small Videos..," you perform the repetitive gestures
and everyday actions found in early video performances. Are these projects
part of a larger interest or desire to situate net art within a larger
historical art practice, or alternately, to see how particular art
projects/movements translate online?

MR: For me, it is more B than A. Start with an understood set of rules or
contexts. Once these rules and contexts move online or become automated
within a computer, the results begin to distort. Although, I do not feel
distortion is really our end goal.

Translation is the tricky word here. When you translate, you hope the
meaning stays the same. I think the meaning of a work like ?1YPV? is
different than Teching Hesh?s work upon which it?s based. It?s not just
the difference in the mechanics of the work; it?s a change of message.

TW: Part of our M.O. has been to situate our practice very clearly in art
historical traditions. It was obvious to us very early on that the real
power of the net was about information and interaction between individuals
(as opposed to pretty moving pictures weeeeeee).

Creating art from interactions between individuals or purely out of
information was nothing new to art. It felt natural to follow in this

LC: Throughout your work, you seem interested in illuminating the
relationship between the artist and the audience, and by doing so, you
often throw your artistic process into relief. What is your interest in
visualizing these relationships ? MTAA?s, and the one you hold with your

TW: Er, can I pass on this question?

MR: It?s funny. Tim and I both have this deep interest in how people and
groups communicate, but we don?t talk about the ?why?? very much.

I think Tim?s interest could be tagged as political. Mine? It?s hard say.

We meet in a restaurant in Brooklyn. You ask us some questions. A few
months later, you email us some more questions. Tim and I respond to the
questions separately and then join the answers together. A friend edits
the text. We send it all back to you.

You join all the text together in some manner. You place the text on the
net for people to read and comment on. This is like our work ? an
imperfect group dialogue in which the process and misunderstandings might
add up to some new meaning. This might be what interests me.

LC: Your works often have on off-line component, though they start with
the web. In the case of ?MITD?
the piece started online, with viewers voting on which random bad art idea
of yours you should make, and ended with you manifesting the piece in
Artist Space. Does the nature of your work change substantially when it
moves in between on and offline spaces?

MR: We've made net projects that move to installations, say ?1YPV.? We
have installations that move onto the web, say ?KDM100? (coming to a
browser near you in 2006). In both cases, some details change in the move.
Works like ?MITD? or ?Printer Tree? are a bit different. They stand in
both worlds. They make an arc from net to physical space. Both ends of
this arc make the work.

TW: A lot of times the offline components are simply reformatted for the
gallery space. For example, "1YPV (Gallery Version)? uses some of the same
software as web version. It has the same video ? but at a higher quality.
In the case of "MITD," the piece itself is comprised of 3 components (a
web page, a video and a sculpture). So, the nature of that piece is
significantly different from ?1YPV?. It's more of an old school process
piece, which happens to use the web and digital video.

LC: The years worth of XML code was an ingenious way to make your piece 1
Year Performance Video tangible and also marketable. I'm wondering if you
ever imagine being able to quit your day jobs and be supported by your

MR: Strange. I never know what to make of this question. I think this
might be the fourth or fifth time we?ve been asked in an interview or
lecture about ?quitting our day jobs.? The first thing I always feel is,
?Gee?is their something you?re not telling me?? This thought is followed
by, ?I wonder if everyone gets this question?? Then, I tell myself, ?No,
everyone does not get this question.? This thought always leads to, ?Ya
know, I don?t care?Okay, maybe I do care, but not right now.? In the end,
I always look up with a dumb smile and say, ?Yeah, sure. Why not?? I say
this because I think it?s what you need me to say.

TW: Practically speaking, it would be harder for us to support ourselves
as a partnership than it would for an artist working alone. We need twice
the income. Theoretically, since there are two of us, we should be able to
make twice the amount of art as a single artist. But the reality is that
we?re lazy, so it takes two of us to produce the same amount of art as one
hard-working artist.

LC: Tim, you were kind enough to make time to come and talk to the local
television news station NY1 when they taped the Rhizome ArtBase 101
exhibition at the New Museum of Contemporary Art this summer. I remember I
talked to them first, and gave them a pretty rote explanation of the show.
(I was trying to keep it simple and sound-bytey so my main points would
stay in tact.) I was really amazed at how bold your comments were. As I
recall, you started talking about how other art forms were ?dead media?
and that net art was the art form of ?the future?. This was, of course,
complemented by the fact that your red t-shirt made you look like a
communist. Do you really believe in Internet-based art?s ascension as a

TW: Yes. But I didn't mean just Internet-based art, but all digital/new
media art. In any case, when artwork becomes digital, why shouldn't it be
networked? Perhaps the distinction is meaningless.

LC: A question of terminology: MTAA describes its work as ?net art? but
surely you?ve noticed that people have decried ?net art? dead or ?over?, a
chapter that is now closed, etc. To me, it seems that terms like net art
must be?to a certain extent?dealt with like terms such as feminism which
are interpreted differently by different people in different contexts.
What is your definition of net art ? and how does it relate to what you

MR: I guess this is the point to drag out Ye Ol? Simple Net Art Diagram
( and the Abe Linkin?s
remix of it ( I?m fine with leaving
terms like ?net art? or ?feminism? linked to certain classic moments,
groups, and stances as long as people agree on the context. Not agreeing
on the context leads to the same old arguments. It?s like when ?conceptual
art? and ?conceptual art? get hashed out over and over again. The other
thing, of course, is that we can use ? net art? or ?feminism? to refer to
a past set of ideals?but that doesn?t exclude it from being an ongoing and
evolving practice. Examples? RSS feeds or Le Tigre.

TW: My definition of net art is any art work that uses a network as an
integral part of its medium. I?m really a modernist at heart (I?ll just
speak for myself) in that I believe that artwork should somehow marry its
form, content, and subject. If you?re using the Internet to make art, then
the art should somehow use the network. If your work is a JPEG that would
look just as good (or perhaps better) printed and hung on a wall, then
it?s not net art because it?s not using the medium of the network.

But these definitions can change quickly. For example, XML feeds are
altering the way media files are distributed over the web. If you take a
series of JPEGs (or MP3s, or MPEGs) and create a feed and distribute them
over time, then suddenly you?re using the network and it could be net art
(as opposed to digital photography or whatever).

LC: With another one of your works ?To Be Listened to?.?
(, it appears that you?ve jumped on the
podcasting wagon?or were you riding in it before? Can you talk a bit about
this piece?

MR: ?To Be Listened to?? (2bL2) in someways, continues the methods we used
in ?Pirated Movie?
( or ?V-TAV?
( We create a shell to distribute work and ask
artists we like to provide the content.
I think 2bL2 will differ in that the shell created will allow listeners to
organize as well as participate in the work. What T.Whid talks to me about
for 2bL2?s structure is a small remix and rate community. I think this is
why we are dragging our feet on this one. We don?t want it to be another

TW: And that means we need more money too!:-)

LC: What does MTAA have to look forward to in 2006? Any New Years
resolutions? As MTAA seems to wear its collective heart on its sleeve, I?m
sure you won?t mind sharing?

TW: We have plans to put ?Karaoke DeathMatch 100?
online as a video blog and feed (URL to come, stay tuned). We?ve also
received a grant to do a big piece that is going in a gallery somewhere
(and still be net art). And our Rhizome commission, ?To Be Listened to??
of course.

MR: When we began working with the net it was easy to knockout a work. One
good weekend together and a project could be done. Now, the scale is
larger and the timeframe longer.
We are looking at one big monster of a project this year, and it?s giving
me the willies. I hope it turns out. I also hope we find time for the
smaller scale projects. I find the small projects can be a place for the
experimentation needed to drive the larger works.

As for the personal heart-on-the-sleeve in 06, or at least what ?M. River?
might have for a heart, I just don?t know. I?d like to give those choices
for change away this year. Send me an email. Tell me how to live a better
life. Send to mriver AT subject head: ?m.river resolution 06.? Best
resolutions go on the blog.

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Rhizome Digest is filtered by Marisa Olson (marisa AT ISSN:
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